tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-696719379963408370.post7878066151590179722..comments2022-01-09T18:26:20.365-07:00Comments on Gay Saint: I Can't Tell You That Just YetGay Sainthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14558954609570246405noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-696719379963408370.post-38926796352203020312010-12-08T11:50:11.224-07:002010-12-08T11:50:11.224-07:00Hey Seth! Thanks for your comments. I didn't ...Hey Seth! Thanks for your comments. I didn't mean to get into church history, or church apologetics, or anything like that. My main point was to illustrate the steps that I went through to get to the point where I understood polygamy as a calling (and not necessarily a commandment), as well as to point out that occasionally, Heavenly Father asks some strange things from people – and therefore we should assume that what he requires of us is what he requires of everyone else, especially if they have had their own personal direction from the spirit. Then, of course, after all that preparation, the Lord seemed to take that one step further with me – by suggesting that homosexuality may be, in fact, just another such calling.<br />I also did not mean to suggest that such is the case for everyone, and I think you hit on a very valid and important point – one I’ve tried to make when people contact me or ask me how they should deal with their own homosexuality – and that is that it must be worked out between the individual and the Lord in prayer.Gay Sainthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14558954609570246405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-696719379963408370.post-39697760778637602792010-12-08T08:12:39.717-07:002010-12-08T08:12:39.717-07:00Where homosexuality fits into this, I won't sa...Where homosexuality fits into this, I won't say. A unification of the male and female in some sense seems required for godhood. But the details are lacking. Certainly, it seems unreasonable to suggest that there will be no loving bonds at all between men in heaven. But the precise nature of those relationships seems open for speculation.<br /><br />You'll have to reach your own prayerful conclusions.<br /><br />One last thing - the websites you mentioned can certainly be interesting, and often they do have true data. But these websites ALWAYS have an agenda, and an ulterior motive in everything they present. They are always trying to manipulate the reader into the conclusions they want you to make. Some of them even flat-out lie about the data, distort quotes of Mormon figures, or make assertions not backed up by objective data.<br /><br />Be careful.<br /><br />I've done some work myself for FAIR - a private group of LDS who work on answering criticisms of the LDS Church and our history. You can find the website here:<br /><br />www.fairlds.org<br /><br />It's a good resource for checking out the accuracy of the assertions made in various anti-Mormon websites and books.<br /><br />It's just a volunteer organization - and we don't represent the LDS Church in any official capacity. Nor is the Church bound by our conclusions. But you might find it a useful resource in your explorations. I believe we even have a couple gay members of FAIR whose contributions we value greatly.<br /><br />Best wishes.Seth R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/13769247769345052208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-696719379963408370.post-62187120499315729572010-12-08T08:11:40.203-07:002010-12-08T08:11:40.203-07:00Interesting experience. I don't feel inclined ...Interesting experience. I don't feel inclined to argue with your conclusions much. I'm sure God has things well in hand.<br /><br />I will note that the concept we populate planets with "spirit babies" through some form of "celestial sex" is not found anywhere in scripture. It is hinted at in the conclusions of SOME of our past church leaders. But others seem to imply different conclusions.<br /><br />Joseph Smith, for example, taught on a few occasions that our spirit bodies are eternal - not just our "intelligences." It wasn't until early in the 20th century that member of the Seventy B.H. Roberts formulated the "tripartite model" of progression of the soul:<br /><br />1. You start as an "intelligence"<br />2. Then you are given a spirit creation from God with a spirit body<br />3. Then you receive a mortal body, which you keep after resurrection.<br /><br />That was B.H. Roberts view, and it has become very influential in the LDS Church, but it is just one view (and even B.H. Roberts never said HOW spirit bodies are made - certainly he didn't say if there was sex involved). Other views have existed in the Church as well.<br /><br />Joseph Smith himself was not entirely clear on his views here, but he seems to have believed that not just the "intelligence" part, but our spirit forms are also eternal and uncreated.<br /><br />Under this view, we would have become the spirit children of God the Father via a process of adoption in the pre-mortal life. This doesn't mean that sex is not still a manifestation of love in the Celestial Kingdom. But it is not clear at all that it is necessary for some process of spirit birth (and really, think of it - how do you conceive, gestate, carry to term, and give vaginal delivery to an insubstantial spirit?).<br /><br />It does seem clear that our relationship as children of God the Father is the result of his profound love. Since sex is a symbol of love, perhaps there is some connection in that sense, but it's all speculative.<br /><br />As for polygamy, Joseph Smith's aim seems to have been to united the entire human race in covenant bonds. This unity seems to have been a pre-requisite in his mind for Zion - the pure in heart - where everyone was of one mind, and one heart. He also taught our destiny for godhood and reunification with God the Father as one of unifying love, sealed with covenant promises. The ambitious scope of his polygamous sealings seems to have been his attempt to make this covenant chain a reality. You can also view temple work for the dead (where we seal our ancestors to ourselves) as a part of this ambitious scheme as well. He literally wanted all humanity in one family.Seth R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/13769247769345052208noreply@blogger.com